立憲・辻元氏「解散で決着つけたらいい」岸田首相「全く考えていない」 参院予算委で締めくくり質疑(2024年3月28日)

THE PAGE(ザ・ページ)
27 Mar 202417:52

Summary

TLDRThe transcript captures a parliamentary session where the Prime Minister, Mr. Kishida, addresses concerns regarding the investigation into political funding issues within the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP). The dialogue highlights the opposition's skepticism about the thoroughness of the investigation and the need for additional hearings. Mr. Kishida emphasizes his commitment to clarifying the facts, fulfilling his responsibility as the party leader, and restoring public trust. The conversation also touches on the handling of assets related to disbanded factions and the potential consequences for party members, including the Prime Minister himself, under the party's disciplinary rules.

Takeaways

  • 🔄 The budget committee session resumed, discussing the 2022 budget proposals.
  • 📅 The discussion continued from before the break with a focus on the Prime Minister's answers.
  • 📄 A February 2022 report from the Liberal Democratic Party did not mention the March 2022 consultations.
  • 🕵️‍♂️ Prime Minister Kishida explained that additional inquiries were conducted due to lingering doubts.
  • 🤔 Tsujimoto suggested the initial investigation was insufficient and that subsequent responses might have been misleading.
  • 🔍 Kishida stated that the additional inquiries were necessary due to the remaining doubts, despite the previous efforts.
  • 🏛️ Tsujimoto questioned the thoroughness of the investigation, indicating a lack of trust in the party's governance.
  • 💰 There were questions about the dissolution of political factions and the handling of their finances.
  • 📊 Kishida provided details on the financial status of political groups, including remaining bank balances.
  • 📝 Tsujimoto emphasized the need for clear and transparent handling of political funds and accountability.

Q & A

  • What was the main topic of the discussion in the committee meeting?

    -The main topic of the discussion was the budget for the fiscal year, the investigation report submitted by the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP), and the political responsibility of the Prime Minister and other party members regarding the handling of political funds and the dissolution of factions.

  • What was the issue with the LDP's investigation report mentioned in February?

    -The issue was that the report did not contain any mention of a consultation that supposedly took place in March 2022. There were doubts about the thoroughness of the investigation, leading to additional hearings and investigations.

  • What actions did the Prime Minister take after the initial investigation report was questioned?

    -The Prime Minister conducted additional hearings and investigations to address the lingering doubts and to ensure that all aspects of the case were thoroughly examined.

  • What was the total amount of assets remaining in the political group as of December 31, 2024?

    -The total amount of assets remaining in the political group as of December 31, 2024, was 78,338,617 yen.

  • What is the Prime Minister's stance on the handling of the remaining assets of the dissolved political group?

    -The Prime Minister stated that various financial processes would be conducted, and the remaining assets would be decided upon by the political group as a whole, with discussions taking place within the party.

  • What was the reason given for the delay in submitting the dissolution application for the political group?

    -The delay was due to the need to carry out various procedures and handle the assets and other matters before the dissolution application could be submitted.

  • What is the role of the party in deciding the disposition of party members involved in the political funds issue?

    -The party, following its procedures, will make decisions regarding the disposition of party members. This includes determining who will be disciplined and how, based on the party's rules and regulations.

  • What are the specific articles of the party's regulations that pertain to disciplinary actions?

    -The specific articles that pertain to disciplinary actions are Article 9 and Article 10 of the party's regulations.

  • How does the Prime Minister plan to address the issue of trust within the party and to the public?

    -The Prime Minister plans to address the issue by clarifying the facts, explaining the responsibility, and taking political responsibility, including preventing the recurrence of such issues and restoring trust within the party and to the public.

  • Is the Prime Minister considering a dissolution of the Diet as a means to resolve the political funds issue?

    -The Prime Minister stated that he is not considering a dissolution of the Diet at this time and is focusing on addressing the issue and restoring trust within the party.

  • What was the reason given for the absence of the former executive secretary from the hearings?

    -The absence was due to the former executive secretary's own political responsibility regarding the issues surrounding political funds within the faction.

Outlines

00:00

🗣️ Political Responsibility and Investigation Concerns

The first paragraph discusses the reopening of a budget committee meeting and the continuation of a summary discussion. It highlights the absence of records regarding a meeting in February 2022 in the Liberal Democratic Party's report. There is an emphasis on the need for additional investigative hearings due to lingering doubts, despite previous efforts and investigations. The dialogue between individuals named 辻本 and 岸田内閣総理大臣 (Kishida Fumio, Prime Minister of Japan) revolves around the perceived inadequacy of the investigation and the necessity for further inquiry to address public skepticism. The conversation also touches on the governance collapse and the distrust in the statements from both the Prime Minister and the Liberal Democratic Party.

05:01

💼 Financial Handling of Political Groups

The second paragraph delves into the financial aspects of political groups, specifically focusing on the dissolution of factions and the handling of their assets. It mentions a specific amount of 7833 million 8617 dollars as of December 31, 2004, and discusses the process of asset disposal following the dissolution decision. The conversation involves questions about the handling of these assets and the Prime Minister's response regarding the financial processing and the political group's judgment on the remaining assets. There is also a mention of the need for transparency and reporting once decisions on asset disposal are made.

10:02

📜 Party Rules and Disciplinary Actions

In the third paragraph, the discussion centers on the rules of the Liberal Democratic Party and the disciplinary actions that may be taken against members. It references specific articles of the party's regulations, namely Article 9 and 10, which outline the procedures for disciplinary actions. The conversation explores the application of these rules to past cases and the potential non-application of newly revised rules to current cases. The dialogue also touches on the consequences for accounting responsibility, such as expulsion or suspension from the party, and the conditions under which these would apply.

15:05

🏛️ Political Accountability and Party's Future Actions

The final paragraph addresses the broader issue of political accountability within the Liberal Democratic Party. It emphasizes the Prime Minister's responsibility to lead the party through the crisis of trust and to prevent future occurrences. The conversation includes the Prime Minister's commitment to clarify the facts, explain responsibility, and work towards rebuilding trust. The dialogue also considers the public's perception of the party's actions and the need for decisive leadership to resolve the ongoing issues. The Prime Minister dismisses the idea of a dissolution election as a solution, focusing instead on addressing the party's responsibilities and restoring public trust.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Budget

The term 'Budget' refers to a financial plan that outlines the government's revenue and expenditure for a given year. In the video's context, it is mentioned that the discussion is about the budget for fiscal year 2022 and 2023, indicating the importance of budget planning and oversight in governance.

💡Investigation

Investigation in this script denotes the process of examining and inquiring into a matter to uncover the truth. The script mentions that an investigation was conducted and deemed insufficient, leading to additional hearings, which suggests a theme of accountability and transparency in government affairs.

💡Political Responsibility

Political Responsibility is the obligation of politicians to be accountable for their actions and decisions. The script discusses the concept in relation to the handling of a political scandal, with the implication that political figures must take responsibility for their actions, even if it means facing consequences such as resignation or disciplinary action.

💡

💡Dissolution

Dissolution, in a political context, refers to the process of dissolving a political party or group. The script mentions the dissolution of a faction, indicating a significant event that could lead to changes in the political landscape and potentially impact governance.

💡Faction

A Faction is a small group within a larger political party that often has its own agenda and interests. The script discusses factions within a political party, suggesting internal divisions and the potential for power struggles that can affect the party's unity and public image.

💡Financial Management

Financial Management pertains to the oversight and administration of funds. The script touches on issues related to financial management within a political party, highlighting the importance of proper handling of funds and the consequences of mismanagement.

💡Assets

Assets refer to the possessions or resources owned by an individual or organization. In the script, there is a discussion about the assets of a dissolved faction, which raises questions about the distribution and management of these assets in the context of political dissolution.

💡Supreme Leader

The term 'Supreme Leader' is often used to denote the highest-ranking official in a political party or organization. The script references the responsibilities and decisions of the Supreme Leader, indicating the significant role this individual plays in guiding the party's direction and handling crises.

💡Trust

Trust is the confidence that people have in the integrity and ability of their leaders. The script discusses the loss of trust in a political party due to a scandal, emphasizing the need for the party to rebuild trust with the public through transparent actions and responsible leadership.

💡Disciplinary Action

Disciplinary Action refers to the measures taken against individuals who have violated rules or standards. The script mentions the possibility of disciplinary action in the form of expulsion or resignation, reflecting the consequences for those found to be in violation of party or political norms.

💡Parliamentary Hearing

A Parliamentary Hearing is a formal meeting where members of a legislative body question and discuss issues with government officials. The script includes a reference to a parliamentary hearing, which is a key mechanism for holding officials accountable and seeking answers to important questions.

💡Accountability

Accountability is the obligation of individuals, especially those in positions of authority, to report on their actions and accept responsibility for them. The script repeatedly emphasizes the theme of accountability, with politicians being questioned about their actions and decisions related to a political scandal.

Highlights

The budget committee is resumed to discuss the total budget for fiscal year 2022 and 2023.

There is no record of a consultation in March 2022 mentioned in the LDP's report from February.

The Prime Minister acknowledges that the investigation may have been insufficient and further hearings are necessary.

Concerns are raised about the credibility of the LDP's report and the Prime Minister's statements.

The Prime Minister states that the investigation was conducted to the best ability but acknowledges the need for additional investigation due to lingering doubts.

There is an ongoing investigation by the prosecutor, a hearing, and a defense in the Diet.

The dissolution of political groups is discussed, with some having submitted dissolution documents.

The Prime Minister explains the process of dissolving political groups and handling their assets.

The remaining assets of a political group are reported to be 78,338,617 yen as of December 31, 2024.

The handling of the assets after the dissolution of political groups is still under discussion within the party.

The issue of political responsibility and the potential for the Prime Minister to be subject to party discipline is raised.

The Prime Minister clarifies that party procedures will be followed for any disciplinary actions.

There is a discussion about the role of the party's committee in making decisions regarding disciplinary actions.

The Prime Minister is asked about his responsibility and the responsibility of the party as a whole in the scandal.

The Prime Minister emphasizes the need for the party to regain the public's trust and to prevent recurrence.

The transcript ends with the Prime Minister stating that he will focus on addressing the issue and rebuilding trust, without considering a dissolution of the Diet for a general election.

Transcripts

play00:14

お待たせいたしましたえただいまから予算

play00:16

委員会を再開いたしますえ0和6年度総

play00:20

予算3案を一括して議題とし休憩前に

play00:23

引き続き締め総括を行います辻本

play00:28

さんまでの

play00:30

総理答弁くださいえ岸田内閣総理

play00:35

大臣え2月の自民党の報告書にはえ

play00:40

2022年3月に協議協議があったという

play00:44

ようなような旨の記載はありませんえ報告

play00:48

書が提出されて以降え質疑や各種報道が

play00:53

あり当の処分の検討を鑑みるにあたりえ念

play01:00

が残っているため追加の聞き取り調査を

play01:03

行ったものであります辻本さんいうことは

play01:07

総理自民党の調査報告書は甘かったそして

play01:10

その後の成林心でも嘘を言ってるかもしれ

play01:13

ないだから総理が追加の危機取りをやっ

play01:16

てるこれでいいですね岸田内閣総理大臣え

play01:21

調査は甘かったというご指摘でありますが

play01:24

ま調査についてはあこの報告書に書いて

play01:29

ある方式でえ最善を尽くしたものであると

play01:32

思いますしかしその後様々なええこの

play01:37

やり取りが国会でもありましたそれを受け

play01:40

て疑念が残っているためにえ追加の

play01:44

聞き取り調査を行うことにした次第であり

play01:47

ます辻本さんその後出てくるていことは

play01:50

調査が甘かったてもう認めた方がいいです

play01:53

よ岸田内閣総理

play01:58

大臣の事案については検察のま捜査があり

play02:03

聞き取り調査があり成林心での弁名もあり

play02:07

えこの様々な努力が続けられてきました

play02:10

それでも疑念が残っているためえ追加の

play02:14

聞き取り調査を行うことといたしました本

play02:18

さんそれでも疑念が残るということは調査

play02:20

が甘かったということですね岸田内閣総理

play02:25

大臣

play02:28

えとでえ政治責任を判断するにあたってえ

play02:35

疑念があったことについてえ聞き取り調査

play02:39

を行いましたえそれまでの取り組みにおい

play02:43

てえまだあ不十分であると国民の皆さんが

play02:49

感じている部分に対して改めて聞き取りを

play02:52

行うえこれが追加の聞き取り調査の趣旨で

play02:56

あります辻本さん調査報告書も一体何だっ

play02:59

たのか

play03:00

でも茶番だったんですかね総理が再調査し

play03:04

なきゃいけないぐらいこれね総理ねもう

play03:06

総理の言うことも自民党のいうことも全く

play03:09

信じられなくなってます今もガバナンスの

play03:12

崩壊ですよこれちょっとね大体派閥の会さ

play03:16

の話から始まったでしょ総務省に聞きます

play03:19

2回派そして安倍派岸田派派閥政治団体の

play03:25

解散届は出てますかえ

play03:28

総務選挙部長はいえ通告がございましたの

play03:34

でえ指会和政策研究会えっとあと高知政策

play03:40

研究会について確認をいたしましたところ

play03:43

昨日3月27日現在で政治団体の解散届け

play03:48

は提出されておりませ

play03:51

ん辻本

play03:53

さん総理なんで提出してないんですか解散

play03:56

してないじゃないです

play03:58

play04:00

臣え解散を決定決定しからしてからのうち

play04:05

えその財産と様々なま処分を行わなければ

play04:10

なりませんえ様々な手続き作業が必要と

play04:14

なりますえそれを行ってからでないと解散

play04:18

の届けではできないものであると認識を

play04:20

いたします辻本さんふだけじゃないですか

play04:23

財産いくら残ってるんです

play04:26

か告してある総理

play04:33

大臣あのえっと財産いくら残ってるかと

play04:36

いうことですがあの銀行の預金がいくら

play04:39

残ってるかというご質問でありますがえ

play04:43

これについてえはえちょっと待ってあはい

play04:50

はいあのえこれはあえこの高地政策研究会

play04:55

につきましても法律に基づきえこの残高等

play05:00

は明らかにしてよりますえその最新のま

play05:05

数字で申し上げるならば0和4年12月

play05:08

31日

play05:11

7833万8617ドル

play05:30

play05:35

ごめんしてありますえ岸田内閣総理

play05:39

大臣えはいあのえっと不債部につきまして

play05:44

もえすでに修正をしておりますのでえ修正

play05:48

した上での数字だと認識をいたします辻本

play05:52

さん処理はどうするんです

play05:54

play05:56

処理これはどうすんのかとか

play06:04

岸田内閣総理

play06:07

大臣えあの処理をどうするかこの財産に

play06:10

つきましてはあこの様々な財務処理を行っ

play06:16

た上でえ残りのま財産についてはあ政治

play06:20

団体としてま判断をすることになりますえ

play06:24

これについてはあこのま党内においてえ

play06:28

そうした財産をどうするのか様々な議論が

play06:31

ありますえ適切にええ政治団体としても

play06:36

判断することになると考えます辻本さん

play06:39

偽装解散ですよ派閥のお金の問題が今ねお

play06:44

金をどうするかなんですよ口だけで解散し

play06:47

まて言ってもダメなんです政治団体解散し

play06:50

てお金をどうするかを岸田総理決めたら

play06:54

いつ公表します

play06:56

か岸田内閣総理大臣

play07:00

え決定して処理をしたら当然のことながら

play07:03

それは収支報告えけにしえあ報告をした上

play07:09

でけにする当然のことで

play07:11

ありえだからそれについ発言は委員長の

play07:15

許可をそれについて先ほど申し上げたよう

play07:18

に適切に判断いたしますがその処理につい

play07:22

て報告するかそれは当然のことであります

play07:26

さん次の総に向けて各派閥お金の処理し

play07:29

ないんじゃですかじゃ聞きますねあの総理

play07:32

はですね自分は処分される人ですか処分

play07:35

する人です

play07:39

か岸田内閣総理

play07:41

大臣え処分とは党の処分ということかと

play07:45

思いますがあそれは党の手続きに従ってえ

play07:50

そして党が判断するということであります

play07:53

え党員である以上え全てがま処分される

play07:58

対象であるとますがえ今回の件において誰

play08:02

を処分するのかどのように処分するのか党

play08:05

の手続きに従って党が判断いたします辻本

play08:09

さん党が判断する党というのはどこのこと

play08:11

です

play08:12

か岸田内閣総理大臣え自由民主党であり

play08:17

ます辻本さん自由民主党のどの機関です

play08:22

か内閣総理

play08:25

大臣え党の中に委員等のこの制度があり

play08:32

ますえ当規約でいきますと9条10条え

play08:36

こうしたま当期役等に基づいてえ処分を

play08:41

行う場合には手続きを進めることになり

play08:44

ますさんそうすると当期委員会の委員なん

play08:47

で今回の聞き取りに入ってないんですか

play08:49

聞き取り

play08:52

に処分する人

play08:55

が北田内閣総理

play08:58

大臣え当期委員会につきましてはえっと

play09:03

当期委員会を開いた際にえ対象となる人間

play09:07

の弁名を弁名書を受け付けるなどえ手続き

play09:11

が定められていますその手続きに従って

play09:14

当期委員会は判断するものであると認識を

play09:17

いたします辻本さん当期役の何定に基づい

play09:20

て判断します

play09:22

か岸田閣総理

play09:25

大臣えっと先ほど申し上げましたえっと

play09:29

当期役で申し上げるならば9条10条中心

play09:33

にととうん処分ちょちょっと

play09:42

待っはいあのえ処分9条え当規約で言い

play09:49

ますと9条10条だと思いますあの元々

play09:53

等速というものがありまして等速で第92

play09:56

条でえ処分を定めおりますがそれは当規約

play10:01

あ当期立規約に定めるところによって

play10:05

進めるとえこのと定められていますそして

play10:09

その当規約が先ほど申しました9条10条

play10:13

えこの辺りになると認識をしています本

play10:17

さん当期率ではどうですか今っ

play10:22

た岸田内閣総理大臣はいあの今申し上げ

play10:26

ました率え

play10:30

ええ等速で92条そしてとと起立規約うん

play10:40

これが9条10条えこれに当たり

play10:44

ます辻さんね当期役えっと起立の23条の

play10:49

6項が当たるんじゃないです

play10:58

play11:24

新しいえ岸田内閣総理

play11:28

大臣

play11:29

えっと委員がおっしゃるのはこの間改正さ

play11:32

れた方のえ分でしょうかえっとこれはあの

play11:37

解説されたものでありますが当然え過去の

play11:42

案件に関ましてはま従来のこのルールが

play11:45

適用されるものだと考えますしない本さん

play11:50

じゃ改正の部分は適用されないんですか田

play11:53

内閣総理

play11:56

大臣これあのこれ当然のことでありますが

play12:01

これ訴求適用ということはないと考えてえ

play12:06

おりますあの訴訴求処罰の禁止この観点

play12:11

からえこうした改正後の規定をこの適用

play12:15

することこれはつしまなければならない

play12:17

このように考えます辻本さんそれではです

play12:20

ね会計責任者の有罪の判決が覚醒した場合

play12:23

は離党の勧告または除名の処分となってる

play12:25

んですよこれは適用しないということなん

play12:28

ですね

play12:29

下内閣総理大臣えっと事案の発生後新しく

play12:34

この改正したルールは訴して適用しないと

play12:38

いうことを申し上げております辻本さん

play12:41

これですね岸田の会計責任者もまあの刑事

play12:45

責に問われましたこれ適用されたら総理も

play12:48

離党韓国除名の対象になるんじゃないです

play12:51

かこれが適用され

play12:53

たら岸田内閣総理大臣えこれはの内がてえ

play13:00

会計責任者に責任がとまるものではないえ

play13:04

こういった内容でありますえ具体的な案件

play13:07

にどのように適用するのかまこれはあその

play13:11

え個別の案件において判断されるもので

play13:14

あると思います辻本さん総理ねご自身の

play13:18

責任どう取られます

play13:21

か田内閣総理大臣え私の責任としてはまず

play13:28

はこの関係した派閥におけるえ責任そして

play13:34

当総裁としてのこの全体の責任えこういっ

play13:39

たことでありますがま処罰ということで

play13:42

あるならばこれは当期役等の判断にえ委

play13:46

れることになります辻本さん除名とか離島

play13:50

勧告に匹敵するそういうことだと思います

play13:53

よ2回元幹事長のこれ不出馬理由何でした

play13:58

play14:03

岸田内閣総理

play14:06

大臣えと詳細今ちょっと手元にありません

play14:10

があ自らのこの政治責任に鑑みてえこの

play14:16

判断をした決断をされたこのように認識を

play14:19

しております辻本さんどういう政治面か

play14:22

具体的に言ってるんですよどうです

play14:26

か内閣総理大臣

play14:30

えっと派閥のせえっと政治資金に関わる

play14:33

問題であったと記憶しております辻本さん

play14:38

あのね政治責任は全て監督責任者である

play14:41

私自身の責任であるのは当然のことだと

play14:43

いうことで不出場を決られましたこの2回

play14:47

元幹事長や安倍派官部も含めて全ての監督

play14:51

責任は誰にあるんです

play14:56

か北内閣総理大臣

play15:00

え今回はこの派閥におけるま政治資金を

play15:04

巡る問題でありますえしかしながらあこれ

play15:08

はえ自民党の中の派閥でありますから自民

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党ま総裁としてこの問題についてえこの

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信頼回復に取り組まなければならないえ

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このように申し上げて取り組んできました

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辻本さんあの国民から見たら何派の裏金

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問題というんじゃなくってというより自民

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党の裏金問題なんですよ各派閥の責任以上

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に各とい政党の自民党としての責任が問わ

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れてるんですよ総理どう責任取るんですか

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岸田内閣総理大臣え先ほど申し上げたよう

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に今回のま事案を受けて派閥の問題では

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ありますが法的には別の存在の派閥の問題

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ではありますが自民党のこの信頼が問われ

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ているこうした厳しい目に対して自民党と

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して対応しなければならないということで

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えこの問題についてえ実態の解明と責任

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説明責任とそして政治的な責任これを

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果たしていかなければならないえなおかつ

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え再発防止に向けて法壊線も含めて

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取り組んでいかなければならないまそれを

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しっかりとリードすることが総裁の責任で

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あると考えます辻さんね私は自分だけが

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生き残る権力闘争のようにも見えますよ

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これ国民から見たらであると認識あります

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か岸田内閣総理大臣え今回の内容について

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丁寧にま説明をするとともにえこの自民党

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としてこの問題えどうけじめをつけるのか

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え総裁として再発防止も含めてえ信頼回復

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の戦闘に立つこの責任を果たすことが我私

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の立場であると考えます

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あのにも処決めてもらうしかないないです

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総理も解散のタイミングさってるじゃない

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ですかそう見えますよ処分まではしないと

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おっしゃった処分するんでしょ解散で決着

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つけたらいいんじゃないですかどうですか

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最後だけもう時間でございますえ政治のま

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信頼回復に向けて取り組まなければなら

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ない自民党に対する厳しい目が注がれて

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いる強い危機感を持ってえそこの取り組み

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をリをしなければならないまずはこれに

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専念いたしますえこのその上でえ政府とし

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ての責任を果たしていきたいと考えてい

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ますえ解散総選挙については全く考えて

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おりませんえ終わります以上で辻本清さん

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の質疑は終了いたしまし

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